What's it to ya?

[Gunny]

Christmas/Yule:

what does this holiday mean to you? does it mean anything at all? do you think it's all just a big corporate set-up to make you spend your hard earned cash on worthless things for people? does it have any religious meaning to you? did this holiday have a special place in your heart and now (for some reason), you could care less? what do you think Christmas/Yule should be about? do you wish it would all just go away?

I'm sure this has already been hashed up before, but there are some new people now and time has this crazy way of changing things about us.

for me Christmas/Yule is all about snow, gifts, eating great food, decorating the tree and getting cozy with Daki. it's not religious to me. I don't go to church and pray. I don't do anything like that. I just enjoy the day, play in the snow, toss my kitties (bundled up like eskimos) into snow drifts, watch the snow fall at night, sit bundled up with Daki sipping some very chocolate Baileys and watching him play video/computer games. that's heaven to me. I stay away from malls, shopping centers or any other place where people trample over each other for a cable modem connection. nope. there are other things Christmas/Yule means to me, but I'm a bit frazzled right now trying to find a FedEx package so I'll have to give more info later.

[Sowhat]

Pressents. Lots of pressents. Lots of seafood. Getting very boozed up & giggling a lot. And wondering what the weather will be like. Last year it varied from hailing to being sunny every few minutes.

But mainly pressents.

[DV8]

For me Christmas used to have a religious meaning, but that was when I was still in elementary school, a school that taught catechism. It was, for me, a time of good stories, since we'd have a lot of bible reading and such, but since I wasn't brought up religiously, it had no deeper spiritual meaning to me.

Nowadays, it has lost any traces of spiritual meaning as the holiday evolves into something different. It's a gift-giving, consumerist holiday, which I think is fine, I guess. I don't have a very close family, so slowly that family thing started to dissipate as well, which I think is sad because I know my mother appreciates that closeness a lot.

[Szechuan]

To me, the meaning of Christmas is simple:
We've all got to live here, so we may as well be nice to each other.

People who bitch and moan about its religious connotations need to just shut the fuck up and give somebody a hug.

[Cazmonster]

Cazmonster bounds into the thread, wraps Szechuan up in a big hug for a few seconds then jumps on DV8 and hugs him too. That done, he leaves them both with little baskets with some good fruitcake and a couple of oranges.

Christmas should be fun. Be as nice as you can to the folks around you.

[Anguirel]

Christmas was one way helping people to actually keep some fruit around for use as gifts during winter which kept people healthier. I think just about all religious observances can be chalked up somewhere, somehow to health or a giant prank being pulled by the clergy...

<voice class="Priest"> Hey guys, lets see if we can get everyone to give up their favorite thing for a month for no reason! </voice>

[Gunny]

it's easy to say that, but I don't think many people feel that way. people get hostile the closer to Christmas, I saw more accidents in the past couple of days that I do all year, people forget to be curtious (ex: my best friend went to the grocery store and two women had COMPLETELY closed up the isle by stopping next to each other and just gabbing. she and her hubby waited 10min without saying a word. the two women saw them standing there, but just kept on gabbing. finally she said excuse me and the two women stopped and looked at her as if she had just told them to fuck off. did they move? nope. right back to gabbing). it's ugly out there the closer we get to the holidays. while it's all about what everyone has said, it also appears to be about having no fear of running over people to get the last box of Cheerios.

[MissTeja]

Christmas rocks. I love this holiday. (Except for the fact that x-mas=snow, and snow sucks.) It's getting to be about the only time per year that I get to look forward to seeing my sis, who I'm very close to, but who lives on the other side of the damn country. It has a bit of religious connotation to me. Most of all, though, Christmas is a time for laughter with those ones you love, good food and PRESENTS. Fun, fun, fun.

[EvanMoore]

My family does not celebrate Christmas or Yule.

Our extended family, however, does--and we earn their eire every year (both the christians and the pagans) because it is such a "non-holiday" to us.

We give gifts both because it is expected and because we love giving things to our friends and family.

So, to answer your question, we don't celebrate it. We participate with those who do celebrate, though, because we love them and they mean something special to us.

The holidays we really enjoy is our mixture of Passover and Resurrection Day since they are so closely tied together. (And because I love lamb, though it's not easy to get middle eastern lamb here in the 'States and the typical Australian or New Zealand lamb that is so common tastes so bad, but I digress...)

As a family we love snow. We love ice. We love fireplaces and being snowed in. We love enjoying the hot-tub in the cold times of the year. But, we don't tie any of our enjoyment of winter to a particular holiday.

Evan

[Sowhat]

Our lamb is fine. Unless we send all ours to you, and get the stuff we eat shipped in from elsewhere (but I highly doubt that).

[Bethyaga]

it's easy to say that, but I don't think many people feel that way. people get hostile the closer to Christmas, I saw more accidents in the past couple of days that I do all year, people forget to be curtious (ex: my best friend went to the grocery store and two women had COMPLETELY closed up the isle by stopping next to each other and just gabbing. she and her hubby waited 10min without saying a word. the two women saw them standing there, but just kept on gabbing. finally she said excuse me and the two women stopped and looked at her as if she had just told them to fuck off. did they move? nope. right back to gabbing). it's ugly out there the closer we get to the holidays. while it's all about what everyone has said, it also appears to be about having no fear of running over people to get the last box of Cheerios.

Bah. Totally anecdotal. I think it's coincidental, because the weather happens to be more dangerous in the winter and the stores more crowded. I see more love and giving and charity around the holidays. It makes me happy, because it shows the best in some people. But it makes me sad, because I see the potential in people come out, and then come January, they lock it all away again--like Christmastime is the only time for giving.

Lot's of things happen around the holidays, and your own attitude and situation will affect which parts of it stick with you.

[Serious Paul]

I was never one for the Holidays, especially Xmas and Thanksgiving. A lot of that has to do with how I grew up, and our monetary situation. A lot more is I don't like how serious some people take them. I didn't and don't like that. I am also not much for traditional family style events, a lot of times they are simply too convoluted.

[DV8]

So, to answer your question, we don't celebrate it. We participate with those who do celebrate, though, because we love them and they mean something special to us.

But...but...what about the whole birth of Christ thing? I thought you were well religious. What happened to that?

[Jackal]

Well you know Deev, sometimes it's just time to stop celebrating someone's birthday after they've been dead for over 2000 years. There just isn't enough room to fit all the candles on the cake anymore.

Ok, anyway. Seriously. For me Christmas is no more a religions event than say, Thanksgiving here in the states. It's time to relax and spend time with the family or good friends. It's more or less a day we set aside for that purpose. The gift giving part is nice but I don't like the idea of it being expected and how commercial the holidays have become. Holidays like Easter and Valentines Day fall into this as well. I hardly pay them any mind. Well, that’s my 15 seconds.

[Bethyaga]

Well you know Deev, sometimes it's just time to stop celebrating someone's birthday after they've been dead for over 2000 years. There just isn't enough room to fit all the candles on the cake anymore.

It's not been quite 2000 years yet. In another 25 years or so...

[MooCow]

[hijack]

Christmas was one way helping people to actually keep some fruit around for use as gifts during winter which kept people healthier.

Not to hijack here, but where does this come from?
[/hijack]

To answer the originial question....

I like christmas for a number of reasons. As Bethy said it brings out the best in people. I like christmas songs. I like giving presents.

I dislike christmas for a number of reasons. People take it far too seriously. (I think my parents almost got divorced a few times over putting up the christmas lights the christmas ). It's often overdone. Several of my favorite radio stations have gone to "24/7 christmas songs". I swear, if I hear "little drummer boy" one more time, I'm gonna go homicidal. The neighbors have so many christmas lights, I suspect they can be seen from space.

It doesn't have any particular religious connotations. Although every year we sit around on christmas eve and read the story of the Birth of Christ. I like that. I celebrate the birth of Christ simply because I think that all things considered he has been a positive influence. (regardless of whether he wasn't the Son, or didn't actually exist).

[Salvation122]

But...but...what about the whole birth of Christ thing? I thought you were well religious. What happened to that?

He probably doesn't celebrate it because the decided to put Christmas over some pagan holiday to make them easier to convert. Which is pretty stupid, in my opinion; you can still celebrate the birth of Christ, even if it's over some ancient Norse/Germanic winter solstice celebration.

[MooCow]

even if it's over some ancient Norse/Germanic winter solstice celebration.

Just a note on this. I've heard people mention this often, and it bothered me a bit because the Solstice doesn't happen on the 25th. Then I was wandering around Snopes the other day, and ran across this.

Don't know if they got it any more right then anyone else. But figured I'd toss that out.

EDIT: Looking for more info, I found one source that claims the Solstice did in fact fall on December 25th under the Julian Calender. Go figure.

On another note.... On the birth of Christ, you ever wonder if "God" wasn't "The Mailman"?

*Joseph comes home from a hard day in the shop*

Mary: I'm Pregnant
Joseph: What?!?! But we havn't had sex! I've been working double shifts at the carpentry shop ever since we got married!
Mary: ummm... it was God.
Joseph:........
Mary: ummm... an angel came to me, and said I was to bear the Lords child.
Joseph: ......
Mary: really... just this afternoon.
Joseph: right. K, I need a drink.

*Joseph turns to where the wine is kept, and behind him "God" (also known as Bob to his friends) sneaks by clutching his Roman Postal Service uniform in one hand*

[Bethyaga]

But...but...what about the whole birth of Christ thing? I thought you were well religious. What happened to that?

He probably doesn't celebrate it because the decided to put Christmas over some pagan holiday to make them easier to convert. Which is pretty stupid, in my opinion; you can still celebrate the birth of Christ, even if it's over some ancient Norse/Germanic winter solstice celebration.

Eh... Christmas has quite a bit of religious connotation for me, but our culture has made it much larger than that. And that's good and bad. In the scheme of religious significance, I really put Christ's birthday low on the list of important days of the year. It's a big day and a big holiday, but for spiritual importance, it hardly ranks up there with Lent and Easter (to stick to Christian holidays).

[Thorn]

Actually, I once went to a Christmas Eve church service where the minister's sermon was basically "Joseph was the original step-father" and what a great thing all that said about Joseph, in an age when he could have just taken Mary out in the street and had her stoned to death.

For me, Christmas can go one of two ways. On the one hand, it can become this frenzy of worrying about money and feeling perpetually inferior and certain that I'm going to offend somebody, somehow, and there just isn't any way I'm going to make all the people who are important to me happy. On the other hand, it can become this... bustling, happily busy time full of smiles and songs and being extra-nice to strangers for no damn good reason.

I was worried a few days ago that this year was going to go that first, uglier way. But yesterday we went out for gorgeous breakfast, then went out with hundreds of other Madisonians on State Street, shopping for people (and going insane, as I found perfect gifts for all the people on the list of people I'd love to get gifts for, but can't actually afford to), enjoying the first sunshine we've had in a week, gazing at the lakes for a while, and recklessly going about without gloves on. And then listening to Christmas music on the car radio.

I don't know what I think about the whole religious origins of Christmas. Sometimes I buy it, sometimes I don't. But I love the season. I love the lights, the songs, the giving, the receiving, the celebratory air, the permission to eat like calories don't exist, the "cups of Christmas cheer", the whole bit. It's like that last hurrah before the season makes that final turning and you're stuck in the house for two months, peering through squinted eyes at the single spot of white in the charcoal gray sky wondering, "Is that really the sun?"

[EvanMoore]

So, to answer your question, we don't celebrate it. We participate with those who do celebrate, though, because we love them and they mean something special to us.

But...but...what about the whole birth of Christ thing? I thought you were well religious. What happened to that?

Deev,
The entire December 25th celebration is rooted in celtic and pagan mythologies with other roots connected to Saturnalia in Rome. Next to nothing around the end of the year is associated with Christ except through incorporating pagan practices and changing the names.

Jesus was most likely born in April or May--for that is the time when the Shepherds are in the fields at night with their flocks--as was reported in Scripture. It also suits *jewish* holidays that the Savior of the world would be born *and die* around the time of Passover. (Although some believe he was born in September around the time of Yom Kippur, the time of redemption.)

I do not follow the teachings of an apostate and unrepentant church who has deviated far and wide from the teachings of the God they claim to obey; I follow, instead, the teachings that were given by Christ and those who directly associated with Him.

Evan

[Jestyr]

For what it's worth, at least in Australia, more families split up over the Christmas holiday period than at any other time during the year. Cheery fact there.

(And I've seen it personally - a few years ago, my friend's wife left him on Christmas Day. Ugh.)

[Salvation122]

Eh... Christmas has quite a bit of religious connotation for me, but our culture has made it much larger than that. And that's good and bad. In the scheme of religious significance, I really put Christ's birthday low on the list of important days of the year. It's a big day and a big holiday, but for spiritual importance, it hardly ranks up there with Lent and Easter (to stick to Christian holidays).

*Notes that he was talking about Evan.*

[Anguirel]

[hijack]

Christmas was one way helping people to actually keep some fruit around for use as gifts during winter which kept people healthier.

Not to hijack here, but where does this come from?
[/hijack]

A common gift in Yule climes (Nordic cultures that celebrated Yule and burn a Yule log) was sugar, salt, butter and fruit (which make for excellent fruit cake ). The gift of fruit was particularly useful as cultures that lacked the giving of fruit mid-winter often suffered from various vitamin deficiencies by spring (most notably scurvy, I think. Been a while since I did my research on this) because they would eat the fruit from their stores with a less fixed rationing system (they treated it like any other foodstuff; one that was more prone to rotting and was therefore eaten first). Those with the traditional giving of fruit would store more of their fruit for this event and then the receivers often rationed it more closely ("I only have 5 of the special oranges that my uncle gave me, I better save them as long as I can...").

I misspoke, though... I should have attributed it to Yuletide, not Christmas.

[DV8]

So, to answer your question, we don't celebrate it. We participate with those who do celebrate, though, because we love them and they mean something special to us.

But...but...what about the whole birth of Christ thing? I thought you were well religious. What happened to that?

Jesus was most likely born in April or May--for that is the time when the Shepherds are in the fields at night with their flocks--as was reported in Scripture. It also suits *jewish* holidays that the Savior of the world would be born *and die* around the time of Passover. (Although some believe he was born in September around the time of Yom Kippur, the time of redemption.)

Thanks, Evan. Makes perfect sense to me. Hurrah, I learnt something new today.

<voice class="Ford Fairlane">You're a poet...and didn't know it...oh!</voice>

[Bethyaga]

Eh... Christmas has quite a bit of religious connotation for me, but our culture has made it much larger than that. And that's good and bad. In the scheme of religious significance, I really put Christ's birthday low on the list of important days of the year. It's a big day and a big holiday, but for spiritual importance, it hardly ranks up there with Lent and Easter (to stick to Christian holidays).

*Notes that he was talking about Evan.*

*Notes that that was rather obvious from context, but amazingly, I had some thoughts on the matter and figured this was the right spot to contribute.*

Did I commit some faux pas here, Sal?

[EvanMoore]

I rather thought your comments to be quite fitting, feel free to post them whenever you like, Bethy (as if you needed my say so...)

Evan