Cars, Part III

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue May 10, 2011 7:15 pm

Yep. Oxygen sensor. It's about $20, and not terribly difficult, unless the old one's corroded in. You'd probably want to spray some Kroil or PB Blaster on it [when it wasn't hot!] a day ahead of time, and keep hitting it every few hours, and then use a flare nut wrench to remove the old one.

It'll be tight down there, but you should be able to see the sensor sticking sideways out of the exhaust, close to the engine end of things. If it looks like you could get in there, it'd be a cheap fix.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:35 pm

3278 wrote:... an ODB-I connector, and they only have an ODB-II reader.

Crazy...I thought OBD-II was around longer than 1994...

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Tue May 10, 2011 10:11 pm

Try this one. That's the complete kit, take the old one off, put the new one on. No fuss, no mess. And your rear struts don't have the outer coil spring, anyway. I have a '94 pontiac grand prix, I just replaced the rear struts on mine a couple months ago. Hit a bump and if it wasn't for the trunk mounting bracket, I'm pretty sure the strut cylinder would have gone through the trunk.

Should be two bolts in the upper, bolting in from underneath the strut, into the car, and two on the lower half, big ass ones. These will be splined, meaning they will have grooves cut into them, to make sure they align properly. You loosen the nuts on the two bottom ones until they're almost all the way off, but not quite, because you're going to need to beat them with a hammer to get them out. It's not /hard/, but replacing rear struts can be a pain in the ass. And if you do do it yourself, as soon as you have both of them in, go get an alignment. Should be around $100, and that's not something you can really do yourself.

Well..you can, using a tape measure, but I don't recommend it. Too much can get fucked up.

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Tue May 10, 2011 10:12 pm

UncleJoseph wrote:
3278 wrote:... an ODB-I connector, and they only have an ODB-II reader.
Crazy...I thought OBD-II was around longer than 1994...

It might be, on some models, but I was told the same thing, at Auto Zone, as well. And Advance Auto.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:27 pm

Yeah, it was 1996 when it became mandatory in the US; it was around before then, but not required by law.

Bishop's suggestions re: the shock replacement all look good to me.

One thing I was thinking on the way home: if you're curious how big of a deal a slightly malfunctioning O2 sensor is, I've been driving for about a year with no O2 sensor at all, without damage to the vehicle [although presumably some damage to my wallet]. So it's definitely not urgent.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Thu May 12, 2011 1:41 am

So one of my clients is an auto transport company. Because of the economic situation since 2009, this guy has been making his ass moving all kinds of nice cars from California up to Canada (well, he moves them all over the western side of North America, but the cars that come this way are mostly doing the California/Canada route). When I got there, his lockup yard was at near capacity (about 30-40 vehicles), they were loading one truck and unloading another. Here are some pics I took today:

BMW 535i E60, BMW M3 E90, Mercedes SLK 55 AMG (Splort.)

Porsche Carrera 4S

Audi A5 (while precariously perched on the upper deck ramp, Tyson, the driver, was in the process of telling me not to buy an A5 because they had 'no balls.' I laughed.)

When I was leaving, another truck pulled up with a other SLK, a Cadillac XLR-V and a Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe on it. I should have snapped a few shots, but I had to go. He had a bunch of Porsches in lockup, Boxster S, 911 Targa 4S, a few 996 and 997 Carreras, an old Lincoln Continental land yacht... I haven't really seen anything super exotic there, but I did see a brand spankin' new Audi S8 this winter and (sat in!) a Ferrari 550 Maranello (it still smelled like a new football on the inside).

Maybe I'm more excited about these things than I should be, but I live in a smallish, relatively isolated blue-collar town, so even seeing these $50k+ European cars roll through is a treat.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:37 am

You're a fucking loser. Do you know that Ray?

Sadly, i Can't appreciate a good car. I'm still in that primitive state where a mud splotch and art are similar. One day, I do plan to lean how to drive a stick. But, not today.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:18 pm

I'm firmly of the opinion that new drivers should be required to learn how to drive a stick /first,/ so if they're in a situation where driving a stick is a necessity they can do so.

Also so that automatic transmissions feel foreign and wrong and hopefully die an ignoble death because oh my god I do not understand how people drive without a clutch or the ability to dead-pedal worth a damn.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:25 pm

I would never drive, ever. I don't drive for enjoyment, and folks that do seem really odd to me. I get that it works for some, just not me. I drive to get from place to place.

SumDumQuim · Post by **SumDumQuim** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:31 pm

Oops... SDQ's account was logged in.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:33 pm

Bonefish wrote:You're a fucking loser. Do you know that Ray?

I had the suspicion, but now I can die fully aware of the fact. Thanks!

Sadly, i Can't appreciate a good car. I'm still in that primitive state where a mud splotch and art are similar.

Well, it probably helps to be standing next to them. They are all just cars, but the engineering that makes them perform and the art that goes into styling them is something I guess I have the ability to get lost in. This town is more of a muscle car type place, where guys build and baby 40+ year-old designs that were never all that high tech. Just raw power dumped into a package that can't really do much but go fast in a straight line. Drag racing is great and all, but it's nice to see newer ideas applied to actually putting that power to more use, which is the appeal of these European sports cars to me.

That Mercedes SLK 55 AMG was the star of the lot for me, though I really would like to have seen it and the Cadillac XLR-V next to each other. Both are small, tight-handling coupes (well, the SLK has a retractable hard top) with massive V8s in them. Though where the Cadillac is a little bigger and has perhaps the typical American overabundance of power, the SLK likely does a better job of applying what significant power it has to the road. The 911 Carrera 4S probably outperforms both of them though, in terms of handling (mid engine, all-wheel drive).

One day, I do plan to lean how to drive a stick. But, not today.

If you like driving, you should. A soon as you can.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:05 am

Hmm, ok, so i've bullshitted on the checking my mileage thing. But here's something I've noticed recently: when I have less than half a tank, it seems like my gas goes MUCH quicker, while when I have more than half a tank, it seems to take a much longer time for my tank to hit the lower half. Is that just me being crazy?

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat May 14, 2011 11:01 am

[quote="Bonefish"... when I have less than half a tank, it seems like my gas goes MUCH quicker, while when I have more than half a tank, it seems to take a much longer time for my tank to hit the lower half. Is that just me being crazy?[/quote]

This is nearly universal among anything with a fuel tank and gauge. Fuel tanks are rarely a neatly shaped cube or rectangular box, or something evenly divisible in eighths. Thus, fuel gauge senders have to be calibrated. How accurate the fuel gauge is depends on how accurately it was calibrated. The sending units usually consist of a float attached to a rod. The float either slides up and down a long the rod, or the rod is actuated by a hinge and the float is attached to the end. There are other designs as well. In many cases, the gauges are calibrated to read 1/2 (or 1/4, 1/8, etc.) when the float reaches 1/2 of its travel length. In an irregularly shaped fuel tank, this is unlikely to be at the halfway point of fuel capacity. It's most likely close, but not all that accurate.

The only reason I know a little bit about this, is because I have to calibrate the fuel gauges on my airplane (if I ever finish it),and I've had to learn how to do it. For my plane, the only proper way to calibrate the gauge is fill the tank, set the gauge at full, then drain it to various intervals based on fuel volume, and calibrate the sending unit's increment accordingly.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:58 pm

Nice cars, Ray! Even living in the city, I haven't seen a lot of those in person. BMWs and Porsches, yes, but almost nothing else. Grand Rapids just isn't a "flash car" town.

Salvation122 wrote:Also so that automatic transmissions feel foreign and wrong and hopefully die an ignoble death because oh my god I do not understand how people drive without a clutch or the ability to dead-pedal worth a damn.

Most of my cars have been manuals, but I definitely understand the place of an automatic. I prefer it in the Jeep, for example, not least because I can usefully left-foot brake while not worrying about gearshifts, rather than trying to right-foot brake while managing acceleration as well. I also like it in any relatively powerful rear-wheel-drive car without a rev limiter...like the Jeep. I definitely love having a manual, and there are times I miss it, but they're a mixed blessing. Each has their place.

"Dead-pedal?" That's the thing to the left of the clutch. Do you mean engine brake?

Nicephorus · Post by **Nicephorus** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:44 pm

Our 94 Subaru is getting bitchy about starting. It turns over fine. But if it's been sitting several hours or overnight, it doesn't fire right away. It might be fuel related as pumping or holding down the pedal helps. Once it starts, the idle is a bit rough and a bit low. But it drives normally.

Any ideas? I'd prefer not to take it in if I don't have to. But I'm concerned about not starting at all one day when my wife gets off work.

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Sat May 14, 2011 4:50 pm

Try some fuel injector cleaner, every time you fill up, for a couple weeks. "Check engine" light coming on? If it's not the injectors, that sounds like a vacuum leak and/or bad sensor, probably MAP, EGR, or oxygen sensor.

Map sensor
EGR Valve

Could need a tune up, as well.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:42 pm

I would replace the fuel filter, too: it's a cheap replacement, and has definitely fixed similar problems for me in the past. Your fuel pump might be going, but typically that happens all at once, or will work intermittently; they usually don't get "tired."

If the check engine light is on, we'll read the codes off it, too, and that'll probably lead us to the exact sensor.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:36 pm

I'm not sure I ever posted these. This winter, I was out offroading with Ana, and one of the lessons I wanted to teach her was that when driving through deep snow, it's important to know the conditions of what's beneath it. I thought I was teaching her this lesson through rhetoric, but it turns out I was going to teach her by example, by getting the Jeep stuck for its first and only time.

It doesn't look that bad from here, but you can at least see sort of what's happened.
We were pulling through a turn-around in the State Game Area - basically a short dirt
loop for parking in, which hooligans often tear-ass around, making deep pits toward
the inside of the loop - when the car thumped, and stopped dead. You can see
in the picture what's happened: the hooligan pit had filled with water, some of which
hadn't frozen; a thick layer of ice covered it - six inches, at least - and a foot or two
of snow. We punched a wheel through the ice, and the wheel dropped to its full
extension.

You can get a sense of the scale of the problem when you look at how much extension
the opposite wheel - the rear right - now has.

Probably nothing illuminates the depth of our difficulties better than this picture of
Ana's. The wheel is sunk into the ice up to a depth greater than half the wheel
diameter, and even with the other three wheels down, the ice and snow couldn't
give enough traction for even the Jeep to get out.

In the end, we had to have my mother drive out with her full-size ginormotruck
and tow us out. This didn't go well; even with pushing and pulling and having me
drive the truck, nothing would budge it. We bent my trailer hitch [already badly
damaged prior to my purchase of the Jeep]. We badly, badly, badly bent my
bumper and the frame of the Jeep so badly the doors and hatch don't close
right anymore.

And then, thanks to a chance comment from Ana about making sure the
emergency brake wasn't on, I took it out of Park, and put it in Neutral.
Extrication was then nearly immediate. But the shame will last a lifetime.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Shit. And I thought you were the brains of this outfit! We're in bigger trouble than I thought.

I went out hiking by myself probably almost two years ago now, in a canyon formed by a large creek that feeds into the Missouri. Needless to say, no cell phone was going to work in there. After hiking several miles and several hundred feet in elevation (and sustaining a not insignificant injury in the process), I managed to get my truck very near stuck in a ditch with two wheels off the ground. The only way out was to gun it through a barbed wire fence. (Doubly handy I had the Leatherman with me as it had earlier help me yank a piece of barbed wire that I had managed to trip over out of the back of my leg without making a gash bigger than it needed to be). Both my leg and my truck still bear the scars today.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:02 am

You didn't have to admit to that last paragraph...we've all gotten stuck in snow before.

In college, I went offroading/mudding with a few friends and got my truck stuck up to the bottom of the door panels. The only response from some guy who stopped was a "Holy sh..." before racing back to his parents farm to get their pick up to pull me out.

And since it's embarrassing car stories time...

A month ago, my neighbor and I were fixing my truck (radiator was cracked). Taking the damn thing out was not easy...top fan shroud housing, battery and battery plate, air filter system, bottom fan shroud housing, and finally the radiator. After a number of hours, we had finally finished and gotten everything put back together...dusk was falling and we were looking forward to beers. Then my neighbor's wive pointed to something on the ground and asked if that piece was important. the radiator has two rubber mountings (to dampen vibrations). one stayed in the hole in the truck and the other fame out with the old radiator and fell unnoticed on the ground. At least we were able to take off the top fan shroud and lift the radiator up just enough to slide the second rubber housing into place. It's a good thing she noticed.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:11 am

Still haven't sold my Jetta yet, but had a good response from my recent Craigslist ad. A young college student responded, came to look at the car, liked it and gave me $95 to hold it for a couple of weeks while he puts together the cash to buy it. In response, I completed an oil change, fixed the windshield washer pump and started to repair the parking brakes. I already had most of the parts to do these repairs. Once I got into the parking brake repair, I discovered I needed replacement guide tubes for the brake cables...the old ones are rusted out and cannot be re-used.

So, I will order the new guide tubes ($30 total) and fix them for the kid. He agreed to pay full asking price for the car, so I will fix a couple things for him since we didn't have to play the dicker-deal game. Hopefully, he'll buy the car in a week or two, and I'll have some cash to pay some things off.

On a side note, I must say that I enjoy working on the Jetta. It is a simple vehicle, and simple to work on. I took the old hardware for the parking brakes out...amazing that, after 240,909 miles, they came out easily with no problems. The new ones will go right in and need a simple adjustment.

My Audi, on the other hand, is a technological marvel that is incredibly complex to work on. One of my coworkers commented that he thinks of my Audi as a car from the future, despite it being a 2002 model. However, despite the complexity, repairs are still fairly straight-forward, and things usually come apart and re-assemble easily. It amazes me the lack of things that are seized or break when you have to put some muscle to them. My American vehicles have always been simple, but very difficult to work on. Many things were rusted together or impossible to take apart without destroying the fasteners or sometimes the parts themselves.

If I get another German car in the future, I am considering a BMW 5-series. I'd like an all-wheel drive vehicle, but I'm not sure if I'll stick with another Audi...I guess we'll see. I plan to keep my Audi for a long time anyway, and I'm only at 81,000 miles. The next service I have to do is the Timing Belt/Water Pump/Cam Lifter and Camshaft Seals service. I need to do it by winter. That will be $400 in parts, $50 in tool rental, and about 12-hours minimum in labor. I have to tear the whole front of the car off, the front of the engine and the top of the engine. If I do it wrong, my engine destroys itself...hopefully, I'll do it right. Paying the shop to do it will cost over $2000.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:06 am

There's a very tasty-looking M5 on eBay right now...

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:59 am

Not really about cars, but driving: I hate people that don't fucking use turn signals. On the interstate, changing lanes, in fairly light traffic, I get it. On a city street, taking a turn when traffic is behind you, or when you're at an intersection facing another car? GODDAMNED ANNOYING!

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:39 am

mmmm...got a spare $50,000?

New ride...
09 Versys

the "Toy"
95 Ducati 900SS/CR

I also have and rather enjoy my Kia Soul

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:45 am

This week I'm going to decide what the next step for my transportation needs is: keep [and repair] the Cherokee, buy another Cherokee, or buy a Wrangler. The latter two options require financing, something I'm not real likely to be able to get: I went to the bank today, and was turned down for any loan, at any value.* A dealership is much more likely to have "special financing" available, so it's just a matter of finding the right car and trying to get financed for it.

If I can't get financing within my budget, then I need to fix the Jeep. Most importantly, it needs a new pair of u-joints on the front axle. This is a pretty simple job - wheel off, remove the wheel nut, three bolts and the knuckle's off and you can pull out the axleshaft - but on my Jeep, with its rust, it's entirely possible to break something in such a way as to require a much more expensive repair. [Although only so expensive; a new control arm that would be a couple hundred bucks on a modern car is $35 or something.] So I'm trying to plan carefully.

There are a couple other problems, as well, that I've been blowing off. The last time Ana was driving [offroading in the national forest], we pulled a swaybar endlink bushing through. They're no good, anyway, and they're cheap, so I'm going to get new endlinks, and thus new bushings on either end. I have a problem known as Death Wobble that's caused by deteriorated bushings, and it needs solved ASAP, so every bushing I can replace, I replace. In the medium-term, a lot of the suspension and steering gear will need replaced, which is okay, because while I'm doing that, I can replace the leaking rear main seal.

The other investment is tools. I'm going to set aside a couple hundred dollars in the next month for tools, impact sockets in every color of the rainbow, extensions, u-joints, and breaker bars. I'll get an electric impact socket and cutoff wheel after that. If I screw something up at Joseph's, I'm stuck at Joseph's, and Joseph's stuck with me, and my car half-out of his garage. If I have the tools - and I don't need a lot of them to do a lot with them - I can screw it up in the comfort of my own garage.

The only thing that stops me from just doing all this and not buying a new car at all - I mean, I can fix every mechanical problem on my Jeep for a few hundred dollars, or I can buy a whole 'nother one for four grand? - is that mine is on the losing side of a lifelong battle with rust. I know the owners lived on a dirt road, but I think one of them might also have worked at a salt plant, because I've never seen a Cherokee as rotted as mine, and much of it is concentrated in the driver's side floorboard, where wet and salty feet sat. Anyway, it's beyond sane repair, and it's ultimately going to be unsafe, so there's no long-term viability in this body. But if I can't finance, I have to run something safe - my daughter drives it now - until I can fix my credit, or somehow save sufficient funds.

What I want is a Cherokee, but my daughter wants a Wrangler for herself, and it makes sense for me to buy one, fix anything that's wrong with it, become familiar with it, and then let her take over the payments or something of the sort, if she decides she wants it. But a decent Wrangler of the TJ generation is at least $6000, with $8000 being the low-end sweet spot. Compare that to the Cherokee, where $2000 will get you in a very decent one, and $4000 will get you into a seriously solid example of the breed. $8000 in a Cherokee gets you something that looks like it just rolled off the assembly line. But all of this is pending financing, which I probably won't get.

*She was trying to talk me into buying a 2007 or newer car, so I could get a lower interest rate, and wasn't understanding my mathspeak about how the higher principle was going to cancel out any benefit I might see from a lower rate, so I just said, "Look, it's just not going to happen. I'm not ever going to buy a car from 2007. I wouldn't want a car from 2007. The nicest car I've ever owned is in your parking lot, and I bought it for $850 dollars two years ago." She said, "Oh, my!" It was really quite adorable; I'm sure the wheels on her car cost $850, because although she's about half as smart as I am, she's much less than half as stupid.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:41 am

Is there a way that you can get by with your Cherokee, making only a few necessary repairs for safety's sake, while still putting aside some cash for another vehicle in the future?

J.D. ByRider is an option...they will finance you for anything. But you will end up paying double whatever the car's worth, and their repayment program is strict. It's hard to comply with, and they will ass-fuck you for the life of the loan if you're even one day late with a payment. Their program is fine if you can guarantee that you'll never be late for a payment, and it'll even start to repair your credit. But they will also start the repo process if you're late. They report to the credit bureaus once a week, and as long as you're in good standing, that's what starts to rebuild your credit. Late for a payment, though, and you're gonna get hosed...I consider them a last resort.

Rose City Motors in Jackson is famous for getting financing for anyone, and a friend of mine went through them with great success. You'll pay a much higher interest rate than someone with a good credit rating, but they won't ass-fuck you like J.D. ByRider will. I imagine there are some places in G.R. like Rose City Motors. But, even if there isn't, we can always head down to Jackson. There's also Sundance Motors...shady place to do business, because they'll try to swindle you on price...but you just have to play the game to get a good deal. And they will also finance. They have sales lots in Grand Ledge and St. Johns. Sundance has a huge inventory. For example, they currently have two 1993 Cherokees...one is $2300, the other is $1800. The $1800 one appears to have little rust, but the mileage is 236,000. The $2300 one has only 127,000 miles, but they don't have a picture up.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:43 pm

UncleJoseph wrote:Is there a way that you can get by with your Cherokee, making only a few necessary repairs for safety's sake, while still putting aside some cash for another vehicle in the future?

That's definitely what I'd end up doing if I can't get financed; once I was done making the Cherokee safe, I would take what would be the payment and put it in the bank, and then a few years later might could afford a Wrangler if nothing else goes seriously wrong with the Cherokee. Other than the fact that I basically would have to buy the car and immediately hand it over to Ana - I wouldn't get to drive it for the intervening years - this would work out just fine, although I'm not sanguine about my ability to actually put that money away without spending it.

UncleJoseph wrote:I imagine there are some places in G.R. like Rose City Motors.

Yeah, absolutely. Most of the bigger dealerships have "special financing," and then there are places like Car City where they specialize in risky financing. But as you point out, that means you have to pay significantly higher interest, and face significantly steeper penalties, than a buyer with better credit would. Which is fine: I understand that's the logical end result of my previous behavior, and that the only way to remain profitable while serving high-risk debtors is to have high interest and strict policies.

UncleJoseph wrote:Sundance has a huge inventory. For example, they currently have two 1993 Cherokees...one is $2300, the other is $1800. The $1800 one appears to have little rust, but the mileage is 236,000. The $2300 one has only 127,000 miles, but they don't have a picture up.

This is a fascinating thing I've discovered: many places won't finance cars under a certain value. Many won't finance under $6000. I get why - it's not worth it to them, financially - but it sucks. Hopefully, I'll be able to finance a Wrangler at a real dealer; if I can't, then I'll just have to hope the high-risk dealerships will finance a low cash amount for something like a $2000 Cherokee.

Nicephorus · Post by **Nicephorus** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:36 pm

I've had the same issue with trying to get financing for cars with >100,000 miles, even when it's a subaru or volvo likely to live to 300,000 miles. So, instead of getting a reasonable priced car, we wind up getting something we can scrape up enough cash for.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:04 pm

Okay, so how does this work? Dealerships don't finance cars under a certain value, because they're too high-risk and they don't make enough on the interest to be profitable anyway. But my and finances aren't good enough to buy a car above these thresholds. Am I stuck buying only cars I can save up enough cash to buy out of pocket?

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:24 pm

3278 wrote:Okay, so how does this work? Dealerships don't finance cars under a certain value, because they're too high-risk and they don't make enough on the interest to be profitable anyway. But my and finances aren't good enough to buy a car above these thresholds. Am I stuck buying only cars I can save up enough cash to buy out of pocket?

Possibly. What exactly is your price threshold? When you get down to the 2-3k point, you're better off trying to get an unsecured personal loan...not easy to do if your credit is bad. There are some online lenders that will give you, say, a $3000 loan with no credit, no lien and no co-signer. The interest rates will be fairly high, and they will require a checking account with direct draft. However, you can actually start to rebuild your credit with some of these loans (that is, if all your other bad debts are settled). Local banks and credit unions are going to be tough to convince to lend you money, but the online places can help. Most lenders (banks mostly) don't want to deal with someone who cannot come up with $2-$3k in cash without getting a loan, no matter how legitimate the cash flow problem might be.

Stay the hell away from payday advance loans. The interest rates on those can top 350%. Also, if you don't know your credit history or score, go to AnnualCreditReport.com (not any of the other ones!), to get your free annual report. Just be sure you don't sign up for any of their extra subscriptions or services...they will provide you with a truly free and annual credit report. This will help you understand where you truly stand.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:35 pm

Jesus Christ. Why do these places want to loan me twelve thousand dollars? I couldn't pay back twelve thousand dollars! I want four. I want two! I understand why, really I do, but it's a pretty shitty hole to be in.

UncleJoseph wrote:What exactly is your price threshold?

The most I'd like to finance is $4,000. The most I can finance - assuming 20 percent interest, not unreasonable, I think - is $6,000, by stretching terms to 72 months from 36. I can pay $150 a month, basically.

Part of the problem is the age of the vehicles. Who loans $4,000 on a 72 month term for a 20 year old car? It'll be scrap before the term is up, with nothing worth repoing.

UncleJoseph wrote:When you get down to the 2-3k point, you're better off trying to get an unsecured personal loan...not easy to do if your credit is bad.

Yeah, I went to my bank, and they tried for $6,000 unsecured - the least they'd loan me - and I was not near their line.

UncleJoseph wrote:There are some online lenders that will give you, say, a $3000 loan with no credit, no lien and no co-signer. The interest rates will be fairly high, and they will require a checking account with direct draft. However, you can actually start to rebuild your credit with some of these loans (that is, if all your other bad debts are settled).

That's something else I'd like to be able to do with this. My credit isn't awful - because I never had enough credit to really ruin - but it's not good: 600. I'm going to have a hard time doing anything not involving cash with that, rehabilitating my credit would be beneficial, but it's hard to know where to start, and it never seems like I have the time to be patient about it. [The Jeep's engine may have packed it in today.]

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:48 pm

3278 wrote:Yeah, I went to my bank, and they tried for $6,000 unsecured - the least they'd loan me - and I was not near their line.

This is odd...you should be able to get a $3000 personal loan with no problem. Bad credit scores might be an issue, but that shouldn't mean that the bank will only loan you $6,000+. This just doesn't make sense to me. I'd try another bank, or two, or three. I'm calling a couple of places that helped another friend of mine around here...we'll see if we can come up with an option or two.

3278 wrote:That's something else I'd like to be able to do with this. My credit isn't awful - because I never had enough credit to really ruin - but it's not good: 600. I'm going to have a hard time doing anything not involving cash with that, rehabilitating my credit would be beneficial, but it's hard to know where to start, and it never seems like I have the time to be patient about it. [The Jeep's engine may have packed it in today.]

If you have settled all your previous debts, then getting any sort of loan will start to help your credit score. Also, you can get a pre-paid credit card to start helping...you have to deposit the money into an account first, so it's really more of a debit card, but it reports like a credit card. I'd check into the "bad credit unsecured loans" online...some of them will only lend $1000, but others will lend more. I'm also doing some checking on this.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:51 pm

Also, how much cash do you have right now to put toward a car purchase?

EDIT:

Have a look at Credit.com. They can match you up with a variety of credit-related services, such as bad credit unsecured loans, secured credit card and unsecured bad credit credit cards.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:29 pm

Don't get a loan anywhere until you check the email I just sent you.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:29 am

Looks like I'm going to just buy a vehicle with cash again, but if I time things correctly, I should have a pretty good amount of cash going in [read: more than $850], so I'll be able to get a better car which will last longer, letting me start to get enough cash together to try rehabilitating my credit over the longer term with some of these suggestions. [Thanks, Joseph!] We'll see this week.

In even better news, reports of the Cherokee's death have been greatly exaggerated [by me], and I should be able to keep driving it indefinitely while I get this new car deal sorted. I thought some deep engine damage had been done, but it looks like something was just sticking in my torque converter. In the long term, something to keep an eye on, but in the short term, easily driveable.

I'm still tempted to fix the front wheel u-joints and the sway bar links - the two things that need done to make the Jeep mechanically 100 percent - but it's $80 that could better be spent elsewhere, and the u-joints might be really difficult, if the three 12-point bolts holding the hub to the knuckle don't come out easy. Still, it'd probably raise the sell value of the Jeep by more than the cost of the parts, so if it doesn't sell quickly, I'll consider doing the repair; it's more reassuring to take axles out when I don't have to drive it every day.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:03 am

So yesterday was the first day I had a chance to replace the timing belts on the Ducati. No dice. Once I got the timing marks dotted with bright white paint and rotated the crank...they lined up perfect. So even through the belts were stretched beyond reason, they hadn't jumped any teeth throwing the timing off.

Today, we, my son and I, set the motor on the work table (old recycled kitchen table) and proceeded to take off the cylinder heads.

that does not look like a .01mm gap between the piston and the cylinder wall...

OUCH!!!! Looks like a Gremlin decided to eat my top ring for breakfast...

Add one burnt exhaust valve and a funky carbon pattern...

The cylinders look like they are in good shape so I am thinking 2mm overbore, and while the heads are off, have all the valves done. 1mm each oversized, new guides and maybe have a 2nd spark plug drilled and tapped. Of course some mild head porting and polishing while at it.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:19 pm

sinsual wrote:Today, we, my son and I, set the motor on the work table (old recycled kitchen table) and proceeded to take off the cylinder heads.

Yeah, my daughter and I need to grab one of these at a yard sale. We keep doing mechanical things on the kitchen counter, or the table where I eat. Recently she used one of the cutting boards to clean up a bunch of bones for identification and display; decided we'd get new cutting board after that one.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:23 am

3278 wrote:
sinsual wrote:Today, we, my son and I, set the motor on the work table (old recycled kitchen table) and proceeded to take off the cylinder heads.
Yeah, my daughter and I need to grab one of these at a yard sale. We keep doing mechanical things on the kitchen counter, or the table where I eat. Recently she used one of the cutting boards to clean up a bunch of bones for identification and display; decided we'd get new cutting board after that one.

Sometimes I figure it's just easier to park in the Kitchen

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:14 pm

You know if I saw this, I'm not sure I would call the police. As long as I had a decent view.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:39 am

So, yeah, I bought a Wrangler.

Something went badly wrong with the Cherokee: for a while it was kind of okay, making this ticking noise sometimes, and then while we were driving down the road one day it just started roaring, chunks of metal eating each other in the transmission. No bueno.

So within 24 hours we located and purchased our new Wrangler. The seller didn't point out a lot of its problems, but I've been steadily going over it in the last week or so. I've replaced the tires [with the Cherokee rims and tires], rewired the amp, put my old Infinity Kappa 6x9s in its rear boxes, fixed the frozen transfer case linkage that prevented 4 wheel drive from engaging, bled the clutch hydraulics, removed the bad spare tire and the nonfunctional third brake light, and a few other things I can't think of.

Yet to do: replace the clutch hydraulics altogether, replace the wheel u-joints, replace the exhaust with something stainless steel, fix the missing bushing on the anti-sway bar. And mitigate rust, oh, how I need to mitigate rust. This is actually the cleanest YJ I've seen anywhere near this price range: it needs one new frame end and two large side patches, and it's good as new. [This compared to most YJs, which need four new frame rail ends and two entirely new sidepanels, if not corners. I'm very fortunate, indeed.] Need new seatbelts, too: Ana's restricted to sitting in the back, which is a little lame.

I got it for an absolute steal, because the previous owner thought he was getting something over on me by not pointing out some of its more egregious flaws, but I bought it for the body and frame, and the hard top, not caring about components...and then I fixed the egregious flaws.

It's definitely more raw, more agricultural, more primitive than the Cherokee. It has no carpets, so it's loud, and the heat from the engine and exhaust comes through the floor. You can look out the holes where the center console should bolt in if it were there and see the road going by underneath. I've had to pump a hundred watts into the largest [car] speakers I have just to hear music on the highway. On-road, it's bouncy and vibrates; off-road, it judders and bounces and heaves itself about, a slave to its front leaf springs and the rest of its World War II suspension design. The manual transmission magnifies the effect of the bounces by transforming every motion of your foot into thrust: hit bump, jab accelerator, Jeep bucks, repeat.

It has tremendous clearances, though, and visibility is excellent. While the Cherokee gives the impression of being able to go almost anywhere, and do it going 70, the Wrangler gives the impression that it can go anywhere at all, but never faster than 20. [Although my Wrangler is more stable at high speeds than my Cherokee; my personal examples are not typical of the breed, though.] The Cherokee feels like a Bowler Wildcat; the Wrangler feels like a mountain goat. The little 4-cylinder has some real juice, 150 foot-pounds of torque at peak, although that peak is too narrow and too high. When you're in it, though, it's like a little rocket. I can't imagine the Cherokee's 6-cylinder 4.0 liter hooked up to this manual transmission. [And I hope I don't have to; my next Cherokee will, I hope, be another automatic! Manuals are for road cars and off-road racers.] And most fun of all, of course...

...you can take the top off. [The top has a rear window wiper with washer, and an electric defroster. It's nicer than the back window on my Cherokee, and it all comes apart. Very strange.] Of course, when it's like this, you can't keep anything valuable in it, like, say, a subwoofer or halfway decent speakers, because anyone can just reach in and take them. And you can't just set something on your seat and drive around, because it'll blow away. Everyone can see everything you do: you may as well be on a homecoming float. You can't talk on the phone, either, and you can't read the screen on your dash-mounted smartphone, or on your stereo, for that matter. And I just don't care.

Hoists are about $160, so I built my own for $20 out of ratchet straps and eye bolts. I'd like something more elegant [and secure] eventually, but for now, this is a perfect one-man setup, in which I can put the [very, very heavy] top on and off [along with the doors; less heavy] without anyone else's help. Takes about five minutes, although I'll get faster the more I do it.

So far it's been a great experience. I'm looking forward to doing more work on it: it's very easy-access, and with very little rust, it's a real joy to work on. You just look around, see the part you want, find what's holding it on, remove it, and away you go.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:57 pm

A very nice score. May I ask price and mileage? Looks to be very clean, especially if it's a high mileage Jeep.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:30 pm

$2500, and 155,000 or so. There aren't many at that price, period - Autotrader has 3 - and the ones that go for that are usually heaps, with bad frame rust, major mechanical problems, half-done restorations, etc. To get a hard top, with a manual, in [mostly] working order, is very fortunate.

The only checkbox it doesn't tick is the 4.0 liter engine I had in the Cherokee, and to be honest, I'm not even considering a swap: that little 2.5 does just fine, and with some basic work, it'll be more than powerful enough for our purposes. I'd want a 4.0 in a Cherokee, but in the Wrangler, it seems unnecessary.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:33 pm

That is a nice score indeed. It really looks good...can't wait to see it in person.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Bonefish wrote:Normally, I would be angry. Because, normally, these sorts of jeeps represent a sort of repressed <person> that drives his 4wd with it's terrible mileage in the city, with nary a speck of dust on it. But somehow, I know that you will endeavor to get'er stuck in a place that no one should be, and that makes me smile. So you're using it right.

Yeah, little chance of me keeping it clean:

Took it out in the rain a little today. This was on the way out, so the speakers are a little muddier now. Something I'll have to keep in mind.

Speaking of gas mileage, so far I've gotten about 20, compared to the 22 I was getting in the Cherokee [on the same tires, even]. But the Cherokee had a brand new exhaust and had spent a couple years with me tuning things up, so I'm hoping to at least coax 22 out of the Wrangler. It spends a lot more time at wide open throttle [WOT] than a 4.0 would, so it will probably benefit me to get some four-jet fuel injectors from a newer Neon, clean them up, and snap them in: the multi-jet design is more efficient than a single jet at WOT. Open up the intake and the exhaust so I need to spend less time at WOT, and I should be able to get the same efficiency back. Now, that'd be a stupid reason to make those changes - I'd never get my money back, nor would the environmental cost of that gasoline ever equal the environmental cost of the parts being manufactured and sent to me - but since I also get more power and a smoother-running, more reliable engine out of the deal, it's probably worth it.

Joseph wrote:That is a nice score indeed. It really looks good...can't wait to see it in person.

I think you'll really like it, the daftness of it, the plainness of it. It really is like driving an army Jeep from World War II, and that has its good and bad. The gauges, for example, don't really point at you: they point straight back, and stretch all the way across the dash. For an open-topped vehicle, it has virtually no storage: an optional center console, and a laughable glovebox. All the controls are 70s and 80s Chrysler, and stuck in completely absurd locations where you really can't reach them.

Now, mine really has all the minimums covered - defroster, for example, and wipers, and three-point safety belts; it even could have AC, I think, although mine doesn't - but I don't think anything older would be practical as a year-round vehicle in Michigan. I can deal with being cooked over the engine on a hot summer day, but not having a defroster would be genuinely dangerous. $4000 is about the minimum I'd spend on one unless it was supposed to be a "fixer-upper."

But stepping up from a YJ to a TJ - and thus to $6000-$8000 - is a huge leap into modernity. It keeps the feel [mostly; the controls are all modern and the design all roundish] of the old Willys, but dumps the stupid front leaf springs [which have virtually no benefits, even off-road] in favor of modern coil springs. [I believe the JK has, like Grand Cherokees, four coil springs, and for whatever reason I'm disdainful of this, even though it's probably a good idea.] Now, I haven't driven one, but my understanding is that it should be like driving the Cherokee in terms of its ability to deal with rough terrain, while still having the obstacle-clearing ability of the Wrangler. Oh, and modern safety equipment. If I'd had the money, I'd definitely have purchased a TJ, no doubt, although I'd have missed the antique interior and general primitivism of it.

A JK, well, I don't really want one of those. I like the hardware, but it has issues like you can't splice into its 12V lines because the microchips on either end of every electrical connection expect a certain resistance and would error out if they didn't get it. Fuck that. That's what I'd want in a Grand Cherokee, sure, but the Wrangler should focus on simplicity and durability in difficult conditions, not chipping it up. Gay.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:16 pm

Looks good, man. I really wouldn't mind having something similar.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:00 am

Diamond plate and bed liner are your new best friends :-)

Nice score. I keep looking for a project Jeep to take over as they come up here often. Just haven't found one at a decent price that wasn't done by someone with an engineering degree from Mickey Mouse University.

Best patch work I have seen is by Rick Pewe (Editor JP and Four Wheel and Off-Road) Cut out the rust, weld in a patch, then weld diamond plate over the top for reinforcement.

Scuff and paint the inside tub with Lizard Skin Ceramic/Rubber insulation for water proofing and heat prevention. Add a couple of floor drains for when you pressure wash out the interior.

I used one of the tall File type "fire safes" in my old truck for holding the stereo head unit, and if you look around, you can find a nice example of an under seat lock box for under the back seat that you might be able to get Uncle Joseph to help you fabricate with that nice new Sheet Metal Brake he has. set one drawer for the amps and the other for spare parts.

Swap the 6 from the Cherokee. While it is out waiting for the swap, get the transmission rebuilt. Then you can have the 6 and an Auto...Doooett! You will thank me later.

Again, Nice Score!

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:16 am

sinsual wrote:Best patch work I have seen is by Rick Pewe (Editor JP and Four Wheel and Off-Road) Cut out the rust, weld in a patch, then weld diamond plate over the top for reinforcement.

I definitely need to learn a lot more about patching and welding, unless I want to end up paying someone else to do a lot of it. I really wish I'd taken metal shop in high school; it's kind of annoying that it wasn't required.

sinsual wrote:Scuff and paint the inside tub with Lizard Skin Ceramic/Rubber insulation for water proofing and heat prevention. Add a couple of floor drains for when you pressure wash out the interior.

Something I'm thinking pretty seriously about is abandoning my current tub - well, not abandoning it, just not doing more than mitigation at this point - and buying a tub of equal or better condition online. [I've seen some for just a few hundred bucks, in nice shape.] Then I can actually restore it completely, at my convenience, without taking my daily driver apart for a month. My thought is that I'll work on the basic stuff - cutting and patching, POR-15, priming, etc - over the next couple of years, and then have it ready for my daughter if she buys it: that way she can have the color she wants, with the interior she wants [bedliner, Spectrum, Lizard Skin, Damplifier, carpeting, bare metal, whatever]. And if she decides to buy something else, I have a fresh tub for my own purposes, to do as I please with.

sinsual wrote:I used one of the tall File type "fire safes" in my old truck for holding the stereo head unit, and if you look around, you can find a nice example of an under seat lock box for under the back seat that you might be able to get Uncle Joseph to help you fabricate with that nice new Sheet Metal Brake he has. set one drawer for the amps and the other for spare parts.

My thinking right now is to bracket in a sheet of heavily lacquered 3/4 inch burlwood behind the back seat, making a "trunk" that can be secured by locking the back gate. Then, out of the same wood [which I can also build a flat dash out of], I can build this:

A center console - although that's not quite the final design; I still need to bevel the front so you can reach the shift lever, and design a hinge and lock for the top - with a down-firing 250-watt 8 inch woofer [Polk MM840] in a sealed box of ideal dimensions, and an amp [Alpine PDX-4] that can power it and a set of Polk components [Polk MM5251] in the dash. Bolt the whole thing in as well as possible, and try to take the Zen view that all is impermanent, so when someone rips the whole thing out of your rig, you can keep some modicum of equanimity.

Took a good hard look at the seatbelts, my next major project. The driver's side will almost certainly require drilling out and the welding in of new hardware. The passenger side might just come out - the assembly screws into a captive fitting inside a pocket in the tub, and on her side the rust isn't so bad - but it's possible it won't. If it won't, I'll have to actually cut open the body just to get into the back of it. And, of course, this is all safety equipment for a car my daughter might buy as her first, so I don't want to take any chances.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:05 pm

Just dropped $140 on some used tires(all four, so 30 a pop, and 10 bucks for mounting, 10 for a tip), and I'm not sure if it was a good deal or not. But, i now have treads, and more importantly, don't have steel belts showing.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:45 pm

That's not a bad deal, but I'd definitely get new tires before those start getting down to the Lincoln-head mark. [If you don't know what I mean, let me know.] They're pricey, though, no doubt: I'll probably pay $125+ per tire when I get new tires on the Wrangler. You wouldn't need to spend anything like that - smaller tires! - but it won't be cheap. We can probably help you pick good tires, when the time comes.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:10 pm

Yeah, my last set of tires(came with the car, and i knew they need replacing, back in APRIL when i bought the damn thing) were WAY past the lincoln head mark(and yes, i know that

). To the point that when i saw the belts showing the other day, I needed to get somethign better.

Unfortunately, my initial plan had been" get the front two replaced, then the rear two next week", and it was derailed by having to drive up to Harmony, NC to take my momma home from the hospital. All my tire money went right back into the damn tank.