Slow the fuck down, I'm trying to work!!!

In the SST forum, users are free to discuss philosophy, music, art, religion, sock colour, whatever. It's a haven from the madness of Bulldrek; alternately intellectual and mundane, this is where the controversy takes place.
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MooCow
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Slow the fuck down, I'm trying to work!!!

Post by MooCow »

Highway flagger killed by car
New laws aren't curbing fatal crashes

By Colleen Mastony, Tribune staff reporter. Tribune staff reporter Michael Higgins and freelance reporter Mitch Martin contributed
Published July 30, 2003

A mother of four working the midnight shift as a highway construction flagger was killed early Tuesday after a man charged with drunken driving slammed into her on an interstate entrance in Schaumburg, police said--the third highway worker killed this year in Illinois and the latest in a deadly trend of construction accidents nationwide.

Deborah Wead, 51, of Rockford was standing on the road's shoulder, illuminated by overhead lights, when a speeding car veered into her, authorities said. Her death highlights the rising number of workers killed in construction zones and the dangers of working as a flagger--a job that attracts women because it requires less physical strength but that comes with the increased risk of working near speeding traffic.


The number of people killed in Illinois construction zones more than doubled between 1999 and 2000, from 17 to 38. Since then, state officials have mounted an aggressive campaign, putting up billboards, nearly tripling the budget for state police patrols and handing out coloring books about safety at county fairs.

Still, 31 people died in construction zone accidents last year, and so far this year, 16 people, mostly drivers or passengers, have been killed. Nationwide, the number rose to 1,079 in 2001 from 693 in 1997, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation.

The highway where Wead was killed, Interstate 290, has been under construction since March. Illinois Department of Transportation officials said that in that time they have kept at least two state troopers on patrol 24 hours a day and have issued more than 2,000 speeding tickets. Signs in a child's scrawl ask motorists to "Please slow down my mommy works here. Thanks Bobby."

Officials said they continue to see people speeding, talking on cell phones, reading newspapers and eating while driving through construction zones.

"We have done everything possible to reach the motoring public," IDOT spokesman Mike Monseur said. "Until people slow down, until they lay off the pedal, people are going to continue to die."

When she was hit shortly after 1 a.m., Wead was standing on the shoulder of the Higgins Road entrance ramp to I-290 south. Police said Walter D. Brown, 28, of Lemont lost control of his Saturn, hit Wead and crashed into a concrete barrier several yards from the roadside.

Wead's protective helmet was found in the back seat of Brown's car, and the plastic pole for the stop sign she was carrying had snapped, officials said.

Flaggers have one of the most dangerous jobs in highway construction.

"You're standing out there, swinging your sign, and people are coming at you at 80 m.p.h.," said Sheila Peters, 25, a flagger who has been hit four times in her two years on the job. "Drivers throw stuff at you. They spit on you. I've had several people jump out of their cars and scream."

Work crews sometimes prefer for women to work as flaggers, Peters said, because they believe drivers are less aggressive toward women.

Peters, of Crystal Lake, who makes $28 an hour, said she's lucky that the times she was hit, the cars were traveling 5 to 10 m.p.h. "It is insane. People ask why we get paid so much. We get hit before the laborer."

Wead had been on the job for less than six months. She died at Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge about an hour after being hit.

On Tuesday, Wead's company shut down the accident site. Fellow workers brought a cross and hung her helmet on it. They said she was good at her job. She always had a smile and a wave. She never lost her temper, even when drivers lost theirs.

Her family gathered at the site to lay flowers and remember the woman who ran a cleaning business in addition to working construction so she could help pay for her daughter's wedding and provide for her nine grandchildren.

After her husband died of cancer, she raised her four children by herself.

"She was a hard-working woman who was very kind hearted," said her niece, Theresa Wead, 25. "She was out there doing her ... job. Now she's dead and we don't have her, and it's not fair."

Brown is charged with driving under the influence and driving too fast for conditions. He refused sobriety tests and Tuesday night was in the custody of Schaumburg police, officials said. In 1998, Brown was arrested on a DUI charge on Interstate Highway 90, close to where Tuesday's accident occurred. His blood-alcohol level in that case was 0.13 percent, according to court records.

He was sentenced to court supervision, his license was suspended for three months, and he was fined $525, records show.

Illinois has toughened work-zone driving laws three times in the last two years, IDOT spokesman Chris Schwarberg said.

In 2001, the legislature passed a law creating harsh penalties for drivers who injure highway or emergency workers at an accident site, Schwarberg said.

In January, the state increased the minimum fine for speeding in a work zone from $150 to $200 for a first offense. And this month, Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed a bill that allows speeding drivers who kill a construction worker to be charged with reckless homicide and face 3 to 14 years in prison.

State transportation officials, who were frustrated and angry Tuesday, said they're doing everything they can to prevent deaths. They launched the "Mommy and Daddy" campaign in 2000, recruiting the children of highway workers to make television and radio commercials. State officials increased the budget to $1.6 million from $600,000 for more state trooper patrols in work zones this year.

After police reported the death of a flagger at the hands of a drunken driver over Memorial Day weekend, IDOT leased billboards across the state and put up posters in rest stops of the worker, John Crosier, sitting with his 8-year-old son. Crosier's image fades in a series of three pictures. In the final picture, the boy sits alone.

"In some cases," Schwarberg said, "no matter what we do, there's still going to be problems with an alcohol-impaired driver or someone who is just speeding and ignoring all the warning signs."

Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
I don't know the woman personally, but I know several people who have been severly injured by the motoring public while trying to do their jobs. I myself have almost been run down 3 times, each time saved only by an attentive co-worker.

I realize you don't like construction people, but please try to remember that there are people trying to get a job done around you. Drive the posted limit, and pay attention to what is going on around you.

Is it really so much for us to ask?
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Post by Salvation122 »

Christ, that's awful. Personally, I always treat work zones like I do residential areas with small kids playing out front - you slow down and /pay attention,/ and fuck the asshole behind you who gets an inch away from your bumper and doesn't let up on the horn.
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Post by Thorn »

Jesus. You know, I'm really curious how many injuries there were in the Hyperfix project in Indianapolis. Because, honestly, I gotta figure that's the next step, especially in areas like Chicagoland. "Slow down, or we're gonna shut the whole fucking road down, and you can damn well deal with that."
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Post by MooCow »

"Slow down, or we're gonna shut the whole fucking road down, and you can damn well deal with that."
It's allready happening here in chicago sorta. Alot of major Highway projects will be completely seperated from the flow of traffic by huge concrete barriers.

But yes.... there are alot of us that think that's exactly what we should do. I'm sick of putting in fresh concrete, just to come back the next day to find tire marks in it despite the 37 road closed and saw-horse barriers we have up. That happened just today on one of my projects.....
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Post by Daki »

What bad is that the project this woman was working on /was/ using the protective barriers around the construction. Unfortunately, the part she was at was at the tail end near the ramp and was not protected.
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Post by sinsual »

who makes $28 an hour...
hey Moo got any pull for a kink who wants to work as a construction flagman?
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Post by MooCow »

hey Moo got any pull for a kink who wants to work as a construction flagman?
Nope. You have to join the Laborer's Union first, then get hired on by a contractor. Keep in mind that those women don't /just/ do flagging, unless they're sleeping with the boss. Also, you have to bust your ass for 2 years before you make $28. You don't make near that until you complete your apprenticship, which is 2 years of active work.
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Post by sinsual »

It was a joke Moo, I can't stand for that long without good drugs.
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Post by Gunny »

I'm going to hijack this thread briefly to rant about my job before I blow my fucking top on someone in the office.

[rant]
okay, first of all, I'm not fucking psychic. just because I'm tolerant doesn't make me Charles fucking Xavier. I don't know the whole office is in a red zone meeting unless someone tells me. most of the fuck head recruiters keep their phones on cover (auto voice mail pickup) every day and only swtich it off when I keep paging them every 10min to pick up their fucking phone calls. so, unless someone tells me that the office is in a meeting, I will over head page until that person picks up his/her phone call.

I am not talented enough to be able to see through walls and tell when someone is in another person's office. sorry, but my x-ray vision doesn't seem to work at all. how the bloody fuck am I supposed to suddenly know when someone is in another office!? I've been told by my boss to ask other recruiters to see if they can spot the person down instead of over head paging and now those recruiters are complaining to my boss about me doing that. guess what? now she's down my throat about me doing what she told me to fucking do!!! FUCK!

now I've got these whiney, bitchy people who come in for interviews and I tell them that the person they're here to see is on the phone (if I can tell they're on the phone by looking at the switchboard) and he/she will be up after the phone call. they say fine and then I find out later that the interview person whined about the recruiter taking so long and they had nooooo idea why. :mad there are no words for me to express how pissed off that makes me. I've been growled at several times by my boss for not telling interviews that the recruiter is on the phone (I DO!!!) and for not telling the recruiter that his/her interview is here (WTF!? then how the hell do they find out and come up here!? did everyone get convenient telepathy while I was out to lunch or something!?!??). fuck you. I buzz the person, let him/her know. when he/she drags feet, I buzz again and then leave popup messages. I even over head page the fuckers and by this time, three other recruiters know that this recruiter has an interview sitting up here at the front cooling his/her heels. these interview people FUCKING LIE if they think it'll get them any kind of advantage to get a job.

don't be fucking naive. the IT market is cuthroat right now and these bastards would strangle their own mothers or wives or children if we told them to inorder to get a job. don't think these fuckers won't take the first chance to point a finger at me and use me as a wedge to get their foot in the door. [/rant]

be back later. I have to go crank up the temperature on the coffee maker, break the dial and hope to hear a chilling scream later on.
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Post by sinsual »

Hands Gunny a Frenchi Spas with a 50 round drum loaded with 3" magnum birdshot rounds...and a few grenades Chunky Salsa anyone?
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Post by Szechuan »

*Wuffles Gunny*

As for the construction worker.. Well, Jesus Christ, I'm fucking tired of seeing people behaving in such an ignorant and incredibly stupid manner. We need to start using humiliation tactics, like tattooing "I drove drunk and killed a mother of 4" on the guy's forehead or something.
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Post by Gunny »

*after recieving a monetary sedative....*

I don't know about other drivers, but driving in a construction zone scares the piss out of me. especially when those concrete barricades are on both sides of the road.
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Post by The Eclipse »

Personally, I'm getting ready to run over the two jackoff flaggers at each of the two construction zones that I pass on my way to work every day. But that's just the road rage of spending a half hour twice a day watching the assholes whose only marketable skill is to remember which side of the sign says 'STOP' and which side says 'SLOW', as their slightly more useful counterparts down the street sit around doing nothing on a construction job that was supposed to have been completed in May.

The hatred aside; I personally go slow through construction zones, seeing that I have to have streets closed off for my job occasionally, I appreciate when people return the sentiment.
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Post by MooCow »

But that's just the road rage of spending a half hour twice a day watching the assholes whose only marketable skill is to remember which side of the sign says 'STOP' and which side says 'SLOW', as their slightly more useful counterparts down the street sit around doing nothing on a construction job that was supposed to have been completed in May.
Do you enjoy speaking out of your ass? I'd think it would be rather painful personally.

Flaggers are full laborers, and while they may primarily flag, that's not all they do. As stated before, unless they're tagging the superintendent those women pick up a shovel and work with everyone else.

As to the project being behind, I doubt it's due to lack of effort on the workers part. Most likely there are problems going on behind the scenes that your small mind is incapable of understanding.

You bitch and moan cause you see some construction workers standing around doing nothing, but fail to consider that half the people on this board post from work. No body in any job that I have ever seen works 100% of the time they are paid for. Why does anyone expect construction workers to be any different?
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Post by sinsual »

IIRC Moo, in Cali if you are hired as a flagger, that is all you do. It is the only thing you do day in and day out. It is the same for Deleware. I know in Deleware you actually get a certification as well as have to attend a course on traffic flow management (I think that is what it was called). There are a couple of private companies in De that supply nothing but flaggers. It was something I looked into while sitting in a wheelchair with a job placement person trying to figure out what I could do. The placement officer had mentioned that DE's flaggers where patterned after Cali's system.
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Post by Cain »

I believe it's true in Washington as well; I know that flaggers get paid a lot less than $28 an hour. A friend of mine was looking into it, but apparently it only paid $9 an hour. I assume that's because it's only flagging, and not labor as well.

Don't get me wrong, blowing up at flaggers or workmen for the construction that was probably mishandled by city hall isn't something I generally do. But not all flaggers are the same.
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Post by The Eclipse »

Sin just hit it right on the money, at least where I am, flagging is all the flaggers do. There seems to be some union negotiation in place concerning that job that strictly defines that it is the ONLY thing that they do. (flagger's guild?) In Cali, they make around 20/hour.

Also, as far as work goes, I don't work around 100% of the time I get paid for (quite a few people on IRC are aware that I can be working at home late into the night when I have something pressing to do.), I work more like 130% of the time I get paid for. But then, I have a job that if I don't do my work, nobody is going to do it for me, it just builds up until I HAVE to do it.

The crux of the problem, for me at least, is that we have had Caltrans rip up the only road that provides access to both the Verizon and the Los Angeles department of water and power yards. Our vehicles were waiting on average of 10 minutes each way to get through this construction. Since both companies threatened to sue and drop the overtime bill into Caltran's lap, things have improved a bit, now it's about 5 minutes each way.

Figure, 164 technicians and engineers in my yard. 10 minutes of waiting each way at the beginning and end of each day. That's close to 30 hours of overtime every day caused by this construction. figure that the average tech in our yard makes in the area of 30/hour, that's 900 dollars of costs we are eating daily because of this. And somehow, every time I look out my window, I see a dozen out of the 20 or so workers sitting under a tree talking, sitting, generally not doing anything.

I've decided to do a bit of a social experiment today, I'm going to at assigned intervals, take a look outside at the construction and make observations.


(Edited to avoid stooping to moo's level of pointless, irrelevant flaming.)
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Post by Gunny »

the flagger situation is the same in Texas. my mom applied to be a construction zone flagger. the pay was $20/hr + hazard pay = $38+/hr and flagging is all she would do. what kept her from getting the job was her back problems flaring up. she decided it would be best to not take the job if she can't even stand for more than an hour at a time.

I didn't realize that flagging wasn't a specific job here in IL until reading Moo's post. I also don't think my mom's job would be unionized either, but listed as gov't worker cuz she'd be working for the city, not a contractor (which I think is part of the problem with why it takes 10 years for Houston to work on and finish a 2 mile stretch of highway when it only takes Chicago 4-6 months).
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Post by sinsual »

heh..Hawaii repaved the entire stretch of the H1 freeway which is the longest on Oahu in I beleive 3 weeks, both directions. All the work was done from 6pm to 6am everyday for those 3 weeks. They diverted traffic to the freeway side that wasn't being worked on so that all of the other side could be worked on at once. Can't remember the exact length and am too lazy to look it up but it takes about 45 mns at 65 to go 3/4 the length.
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Post by The Eclipse »

Okay, here we go.

I brought my pocket tape recorder with me to work today and used it to take notes. I used my assistant to help me provide unbiased documentation of the activities of the crew working on the street outside. For additional detail, I took the scope off my paintball gun and brought it to better see what was going on.
I decided that I would watch for one or two minutes at the :45 minute mark of every hour (my reasoning for this was that I fell that the top and bottom of every hour are when people are most likely taking lunch and breaks.)

I chose four workers for observation:

Worker A: A flagger, (this one's for moo) black, late 20s to early 30s.

Worker B: Backhoe operator, I think hispanic, at least 40-45 years.

Worker C: Manager I assume (only because he did no relevant task the entire time I watched) White, 30-40 years old.

Worker D: General Labor (?), White, early 20s.

***********************************************

7:45am
C immediately strikes my attention, he is leaned up against the side of a newish model honda of some sorts, drinking coffee, I think from 7-11 and talking on his cell phone. B is busily chugging away at a very big hole in the middle of the street, D is directing him and giving observations as he hauls out dirt. My assistant, whom I refer to during the entirity of my voice notes as "Cobra", much to his dismay, has pointed out that B is operating heavy equipment and wearing headphones, is that legal? C is still on the phone when I close the blinds and return to work.

8:45am
C is standing in the exact same spot on the phone as he was the hour before, I'd like to assume that he's not on the same call he was on then. Cobra advises that he no longer has the coffee cup. A is currently in an argument with an irate person who is apparently unhappy at the wait. The only reason that I can see for the wait is the two bulldozer drivers bullshitting with each other and blocking both lanes. Cobra corrects me that we don't KNOW that they are only bullshitting, there could be a legitimate reason for their conversation. D is currently jackhammering a curb apart.

9:45am
A is reading the newspaper, It's hard to see, even with the scope, but I think it's the sports section. He is so intent on it that a car sits in front of him, waiting to go for almost a full minute before he stands up. C is nowhere to be seen, the Honda is gone as well. D has moved about six feet down from where he was, jackhammer still going. B is also nowhere to be seen.

10:45am
Jackhammer still going, D has moved 6 more feet, same story. B is currently laying in the shade of a tree, hard hat on chest, apparently asleep. Cobra is being rebellious and refused my order for him to go downstairs and get a better look to see if B's eyes are indeed closed. C is still gone, A is reading his paper. Same section as far as I can tell, how long does it take one to read a section of the paper?

11:45am
C has returned, he looks the exact same as he did this morning, cell phone and all, only difference is that he's now in posession of a Jack-in-the-Box cup, 32oz. Cobra points out that while B is awake again and working on the trench, he is also again wearing the headphones. D is nowhere to be seen. A is busily directing a heavy influx of our traffic as DWP and Verizon people leave for lunch.

12:45am
I'm on this one alone, I think Cobra is on the can. D is helping guide a bulldozer dragging an Iron plate, he's holding a McDonald's super size cup. C is sitting in the Honda looking over some papers, if these papers are indeed work related, it may be the first time C has done any work today. A is sitting in a chair throwing his little hand stop/slow sign into the air, allowing it to do 1-3 spins and catching it again. B is standing beside his machine, talking to another crewperson.
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Post by The Eclipse »

1:45am
C and B are both talking to each other beside C's Honda. A is back to the newspaper, D is back to the jackhammer, nothing all that new.

2:45am
I'm considering going down and asking 'D' if he wants a job with higher pay. It's hard to hell, but I think C is throwing small rocks and catching them in the jack in the box cup. B is talking to A, A is trying to read the newspaper and his body language suggests he would really like B to go the fuck away. They are packing up for the night and Cobra is threatening to have my windows borded up for monday.
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Post by MooCow »

What's your point Eclipse? Go to any office anywhere, and you'll see about the same level of performance. I've worked in offices before, it's no damn different.

My point was that you seem to be claiming that the workers are lazy because you don't see them working, but you are failing to recognize that they work no less then /most/ people in their office jobs do.
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Post by FlameBlade »

Eclipse, please do observations in the office...you probably will see a lot of similar things...
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Post by FlameBlade »

Also, MooCow...isn't that why contracts have incentives in them...so people can finish work earlier for more money?
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Post by Reika »

I think Eclipse's point is that these people are obstructing the yard his repairmen have to go through which costs his company time and money. I'm sure he's aware of the slacking in the office, but that probably doesn't impact the company so dramatically.
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Post by Jestyr »

Actually, I'd be surprised to see that much slacking in an office. Hell, I'm probably one of the slackest people where I work, and I do a lot more work than E observed. And I work in a government office, at that.
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Post by The Eclipse »

Hah!

Moo, what exactly is your experience of office work? I consider myself to be fantastically tolerant of slacking as long as the work is getting done, and If anyone in my department did as little as those guys, they would find their stuff in a cardboard box with their final paycheck atop it come monday morning. I am very understanding that it's better to have people happy with their job, than people who hate their jobs. That's why I'm very lenient, but not so much that productivity is adversely affected.

Oh, and just to make it fun, they took a completely good road, ripped it up and threw down a bumpy piece of shit that I'm afraid is damaging the suspension on my car.
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Post by MooCow »

Moo, what exactly is your experience of office work?
I've worked at the office's of.... The Ohio Department of Transportation, Ecology @ Paramount's King's Island, CTL Testing Laboratory, Korda Nemeth Engineering, Exxcel Contract Managment, Transportation and Parking @ The Ohio State University, and I've worked in the office of my current employer.

Oh, and just to make it fun, they took a completely good road, ripped it up and threw down a bumpy piece of shit that I'm afraid is damaging the suspension on my car.
Of course, because you happen to be an engineer for the DOT and have /so/ much experience in determining whether a road is good or not, right?
I think Eclipse's point is that these people are obstructing the yard his repairmen have to go through which costs his company time and money.
Wha! Cry me a river. Somewhere there is someone in some office whose slacking is delaying the processing of something that is in some way important to me. Just because I can't see it directly, doesn't mean I'm not impacted by it.

People get on Construction because it is much more visible then most other jobs, but the /fact/ is that it is no different from any other job (fundamentally speaking).
Also, MooCow...isn't that why contracts have incentives in them...so people can finish work earlier for more money?
Yes, but individual workers rarely see that incentive (except in the form of OT, which doesn't have a direct link psychologically speaking). Also, given the level of slacking Eclipse describes (Which I suspect is unintentionally exagerated), they're likely direct DOT employees. They have /no/ incentive to work hard because you can't fire them thanks to the machinations of whiny liberal democrats. That would make them Maintenance workers, not Construction workers (It's a fine, but important detail).
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Post by DV8 »

The next time people are ripping up a throughway in my office, impeding the flow of traffic through our office, inconveniencing a bunch of people, I'll start bitching at people slacking in our office.
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Post by Daki »

Eclipse wrote:My assistant, whom I refer to during the entirity of my voice notes as "Cobra", much to his dismay, has pointed out that B is operating heavy equipment and wearing headphones, is that legal?
He's wearing them to block out the /very/ loud noise created by the machine. Stand next to any piece of heavy equipment for 5 minutes and you'll see why they wear them.

Deev wrote:The next time people are ripping up a throughway in my office, impeding the flow of traffic through our office, inconveniencing a bunch of people, I'll start bitching at people slacking in our office.
Well shit, there goes the entire management team. Better stock up on bullets.
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Post by Van Der Litreb »

He's wearing them to block out the /very/ loud noise created by the machine. Stand next to any piece of heavy equipment for 5 minutes and you'll see why they wear them.
Or simply to keep from going insane with boredom. [derail] One time I was out doing a temp job, doing something as exciting as stacking toilet paper on pallets. It was a rather big warehouse with few employees, so, as usual, I was wearing my discman. Suddenly, the foreman of the day shift comes up to me, obviously aggitated. Apparently he's been trying to call me, so he resolves to forcefully yank out one of my earphones. Which fucking hurts. I came inches away from decking the pudgy little fucker, and I'm quite sure he realised it. [/derail] So, yeah, maybe the guy is just trying to pass time, and would prefer not doing it making idle chatter.

Eclipse: There is also the possibility that the crew is actually _ahead_ of schedule.
\m/
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Post by MooCow »

The next time people are ripping up a throughway in my office, impeding the flow of traffic through our office, inconveniencing a bunch of people, I'll start bitching at people slacking in our office.
How does road construction inconvenience people? I've never understood that statement. "By building a large, well developed infrastructure so that people and goods can be moved around the country, you are inconveniencing me."

People who think road construction is an inconvenience are stupid.
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Post by Cain »

It is a temporary inconvenience, one has to admit. It may be worth it in the long run, but it's still temporarily an inconvenience.

Let's be fair-- sometimes, road work seems to be poorly planned and executed. A year or so ago, the road where I was living was torn up and resurfaced. Inconvenient enough, especially when there was a backhoe in my driveway as I was trying to leave for work. But, I dealt. About a month later, the road was torn up again so sewer maintanence could be done. And the new surface was noticeable patchy and uneven, especially in relation to the half of the road that was smooth, fresh asphalt. Finally, some months later, the patchy section was torn up and redone.

Do I blame the construction workers? No. I also assume that the sewer workers were not also surfacers, explaining the shoddy road conditions. But was it poorly planned and executed? Most definitely.
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Post by TheScamp »

People who think road construction is an inconvenience are stupid.
But it is an inconvenience. That is, the actual construction part is a huge inconvenience for those who need to use the road being serviced. The finished project is great; it's the process it takes to get there that's a pain in the ass. Are you honestly unable to see that?
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Post by Anguirel »

I'd like to relate a personal anecdote about construction work. It involves the street running next to my college, called, appropriately enough, College Ave. I lived in an apartment on said street for 3 years. In my final year there, the college broke ground on several new structures which required increased infrastructure, so the various utility companies decided this would be a good opportunity to upgrade all of their fixtures in the area. Simultaneously.

Now for an excerpt from my Live Journal at the time:
"So, they ripped up the far side of the road to... do something. I never figured out exactly what, but I assume it involved laying new wires or burying existing ones deeper or something similar. A few days later the ripped up the near side. Who knows why, but I'd assume about the same as whatever they did to the other side, or the opposite (removing wires that had been doubled on the other side). In neither case did they re-pave. It's just hard-packed dirt right now (which makes a lovely mud when it rains). So there was a single strip of paved road left running down the center. Which has been replaced with a 6-foot deep hole. At least they're thorough, I guess..."

I was looking for the one where I said "I was going to my car today and discovered that there was a 4 foot-wide, 6-foot-deep trench dug right in front of the parking lot preventing me from being able to get out," but I may not have related that particular story in that format. Anyways, I think watching this for about a year (including a lot of winter construction) entitles me to make a few observations on the workers involved.

Anytime they were directly obstructing the road in a fashion where they expected to be able to finish in a single day (i.e. they had not posted a multi-day detour a week or two in advance) they worked consistently and quickly to finish their job at least to the point of allowing traffic to resume. For example, the above parking-lot-blocking-trench was only an issue for a period of time between a half-hour and an hour around mid-morning (when there wasn't much traffic anyways). Every single major pause in that sort of work was caused by a lack of materials. As soon as the truck containing the needed gravel or whatever arrived, work immediately resumed. They even took their breaks in shifts and usually waited until there was a short-term job where extra hands wouldn't be of much use.

In none of these cases, I suspect, were the workers in question DOT maintenance workers. They probably weren't DOT construction workers either. But when I voiced my concern (I want to get my car out) they were solicitous and asked if I could wait 20 minutes (I could). If not, they were willing to spend a minute putting a metal panel into place to allow egress for my vehicle. I originally was most annoyed because I thought they were asking me to wait 20 minutes for a metal panel. When I returned 20 minutes later the trench, however, was completely re-filled.

Anyways, next time you're out watching those people, you might see if you can spot a) the reason the roadwork is being done; b) whether the necessary materials are on hand; c) whether those who seem to be slacking could actually be doing useful labor at that exact time.
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Post by DV8 »

TheScamp wrote:
People who think road construction is an inconvenience are stupid.
But it is an inconvenience. That is, the actual construction part is a huge inconvenience for those who need to use the road being serviced. The finished project is great; it's the process it takes to get there that's a pain in the ass. Are you honestly unable to see that?
Thanks, Scamp.
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Post by MooCow »

Are you honestly unable to see that?
Yes, because the alternatives are even more inconvenient.

It's like saying that having to wait in line at the grocery store is damned inconvenient when there are people in the world who don't even have grocery stores.

All day, every day, all I get is shit from the fuckers driving through my office. The only reason I'm there is for their benefit. It's not for mine, cause I don't live there. I live in the subburbs, and would never use that intersection if I didn't work at it.

I'm sick of hearing people bitch about how inconvenient road construction is when there are places in the world that don't even have roads. Are you honestly unable to understand that the alternatives are worse?
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Post by DV8 »

Moo, what you don't seem to get through your thick skull is that while the end result of your work is a benefit to everyone in the area, the time you take to get to your result is damned inconvenient, especially if you take longer than you really have to.

Perception is reality.
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Post by TheScamp »

[s]You know, I hate people who bitch about the conditions at their job, because at least they have a job.[/s]
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Post by FlameBlade »

Let me make a big point.

Today, I went past motorcycle accident. Apparently someone rammed a motorcyclist from behind...But anyway, the traffic were backed up...Construction workers happened to be there...surveying the place. Construction workers immediately came to help and helped direct traffic until police and ambulance came in.

Accidents are inconvience, and I can say that construction workers are trying their best to ease any kind of traffic inconviences...Sure, it may not seem that way, but they are really trying their best.
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Post by Gunny »

personally, I don't have a problem with construction people. it's not them that get my ire up, it's the fucktards who have a driver's license and don't know how to drive in construction zones. such as the people who refuse to allow others to merge, or who let EVERYONE merge infront of them while the people behind that driver are fucked until he/she is done being charitable, people who don't read construction signs about end of lanes or something and end up having to make sudden swerves back into traffic. my favorite are the people who forget that they have to exit and decide that 20 ft from the exit ramp is the perfect time to start forcing his/her way over across three lanes of already stopped traffic instead of trying to get over a quarter mile back.

that's what makes road construction an inconvenience to me. not the people working, but the retards driving.
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Post by FlameBlade »

Gunny: I agree wholeheartedly with you...A lot of people are always trying to squeeze through, but they need to realize that by squeezing through, they're causing traffic jam. It's funny how people don't realize that they're causing traffic jams by being retards around construction sites...
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Post by Adam »

Hey Moo, this reminds me - you once said that people who weave in and out of traffic to get into faster lanes end up causing traffic jams and slowing the flow [or something of that nature.]

Can you explain this in a bit more detail for me? I don't drive, but my roomate is a very aggressive driver and does a ton of weaving. It makes sense to me; so many drivers are so very bad about getting in the appropriate lane, and those who want to go fast unfortunately /can't/ just go fast in the left-lane, because typically there are fucktards driving just above or at the speed limit in the leftmost lane, or two or three people all driving the same speed in ajacent lanes, making it unable for people to pass - or making it so people have to pass on the right side.

I understand that if everyone drove appropriately in the right speed in the correct lanes, things would be fine; but people don't. Two wrongs don't make a right, but some weaving and speeding seems to get us to Saturday gaming faster than sticking behind the retard doing 100KM in the fast lane. . .
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Post by Gunny »

I've come to the belief that those kind of people just don't care. all they're concerned about is getting wherever, faster or moving forward a whole twenty-four inches ahead of the other guy.

of course there are the truely brainless (most old people) that seem to co-habitat with the impatient and thus, we have a traffic jam in a construction zone.
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Post by Cain »

Hey Moo, this reminds me - you once said that people who weave in and out of traffic to get into faster lanes end up causing traffic jams and slowing the flow [or something of that nature.]

Can you explain this in a bit more detail for me?
I can take this one, at least in part.

You have to realize, the actual driving part of driving a car is actually very easy. What's difficult is learning how to predict the movement of the other cars on the road. Just about anyone can learn to handle a car farily rapidly; it's learning to figure out what the other drivers are doing, and communicating to them what you're doing, that takes a great deal of time and effort. It can't really be taught, it has to be learned through practice.

When someone is weaving and speeding all over the place, that person is sending all kinds of crazed signals to the other drivers on the road. They don't want to get into a wreck, so they naturally slow down, slam on the brakes, drive more conservatively. That way, they can have more time to predict what you're doing. Since you can see this stuff in your rear-view mirror, many drivers will pre-epmtively slow down to defend themselves. Some drivers will also intentionally "blockade" a reckless driver, so they know where he's at, and they don't have to worry about him suddenly cutting them off.

The net result is a slowdown in traffic, especially in major traffic jams.
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Post by FlameBlade »

And also...

About weaving...if drivers are weaving a lot, then that driver, in a manner of speaking, is taking up two lanes rather than one. Add in more weavers, then there isn't much place for driving...as a lot of lanes are "taken up"
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Post by Daki »

It's called the rubber-band effect. Driver A cuts in the lane just in front of Driver B. Driver B, wanting to put distance between himself and the idiot Driver A, taps the brakes. Driver C, following Driver B, sees brake lights and taps his own. Repeat down the line. This happens a few times, you get a traffic jam that just builds on itself. Hence the reason you'll see traffic go from slow to open road without seeing a reason for the delay.
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Post by Anguirel »

Adam wrote:It makes sense to me; so many drivers are so very bad about getting in the appropriate lane, and those who want to go fast unfortunately /can't/ just go fast in the left-lane, because typically there are fucktards driving just above or at the speed limit in the leftmost lane
Yeah, those fuckers... how dare they, you know, follow the law and do things in a legal fashion, utilizing the lanes appropriately according to the law.
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Post by Daki »

Anguirel wrote:
Adam wrote:It makes sense to me; so many drivers are so very bad about getting in the appropriate lane, and those who want to go fast unfortunately /can't/ just go fast in the left-lane, because typically there are fucktards driving just above or at the speed limit in the leftmost lane
Yeah, those fuckers... how dare they, you know, follow the law and do things in a legal fashion, utilizing the lanes appropriately according to the law.
And everyone says that slower traffic should always keep to the right to help the flow of traffic. Hell, they put that on the /speed limit signs/ here in Illinois.
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Post by Adam »

Anguirel wrote:Yeah, those fuckers... how dare they, you know, follow the law and do things in a legal fashion, utilizing the lanes appropriately according to the law.
"Slow" is a comparative term. If all the road signs say "Slow vehicles keep right" and you are driving slower than the other vehicles on the road, you should be keeping right.

Following the law is great. Getting your slow ass in the slow lanes reduces road rage. It's fairly well accepted that on major roads you can drive up to above 120KM/h if the speed limit is normally 100 or 110 - it may be illegal, but few cops will ticket you for it.

Thanks for the other non-fucktarded responses, everyone else. I'm not quite sure I agree with them on some levels [if someone was driving like an ass behind me, I'd want to get out of his way and let him be an ass to other people, not box him in so he can continue to be an ass while riding my ass...], but the explanations make sense.
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