Demon: The Fallen

Silent Sniper · Post by **Silent Sniper** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:24 pm

Can anyone give me a good description of this one before I put down a wad of my hard-earned cash to buy it?

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:49 pm

Dude, you can hellfire people in the crotch. What else do you want?

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:50 pm

Lucifer is a sympathetic, Miltonian anti-hero. Demons rebelled because they believed their cause was just. You are a demon, recently escaped from the Abyss due to a supernatural storm in the underworld that cracked the walls of your prison. You have landed in the body of a human who lacked a soul. Some who escaped wish to follow Lucifer. Some wish to sharpen humanity as a spear to be used against God. Some wonder if this wasn't God's plan all along. Still others just want to destroy everything.

It's a game about faith and redemption, and the nature of a universe God may have abandoned to its fate.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:12 pm

Trav summed it up pretty well, although his focus was a little different. Check out www.light-bringer.net - it's the main fan site for Demon; their version of Dumpshock, I guess. You might get more information there that will help you make a decision.

Of course, I say BuyItBuyItBuyIt, but I'm biased.

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:17 pm

Link's screwy. Plus, when I wrote it in myself, I didn't notice the - in the middle of light and bringer. As one word, it leads you to a site for Satanists. Took me a while to figure out that what I was finding was not what I had been seeking. Kinda funny.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:19 pm

Hellfire, to the crotch, what else matters?

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:25 pm

Shooting hellfire /from/ the crotch.

Doesn't the lead singer for Winger do something like that?

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:15 pm

Now we're talking!

I want to play CC Deville, after he's been posessed by some naughty lust demon who's wicked slick with the lead guitar.

Cazmonster sets his fur to 'teased out' and gets ready to lay down some unholy riffs.

paladin2019 · Post by **paladin2019** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:06 am

The Traveler wrote: human who lacked a soul.

Huh? Just thought this was one of the defining qualities of humanity, from the WoD metaphysic.

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:15 am

paladin2019 wrote:Huh? Just thought this was one of the defining qualities of humanity, from the WoD metaphysic.

You're issued one at birth. You're not guaranteed to keep it. One of the examples in the fiction intro was a guy who attempted to hang himself.

paladin2019 · Post by **paladin2019** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:30 am

So demonns inhabit the dead? Or attempting suicide forfeits your soul? Can a person live without a soul? Raises some interesting questions about Faustian pacts.

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:38 am

They don't inhabit the dead, as nearly as I can tell. Other examples given were things like coma victims.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:15 am

http://www.light-bringer.net/

Link fixed.

The premise sounds like fun.

Icepick · Post by **Icepick** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:33 am

Sounds like it has potential on it's own, plus shots of fire to the crotch, but what does this do, that In Nomine(sp?) doesn't. It's about heaven and hell, and you can play a good or evil character.

I am familiar with the WoD system, so I know what I can do with it involving this game?

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:27 am

Demon is In Nomine with meaty goodness. In Nomine bent so far over backwards to be un-religiously offensive that - despite the fact that you play demons and angels - there's not much feeling of spirituality about the game. Demon, on the other hand, fairly reeks of faith - faith broken, faith destroyed, faith betrayed or redeemed or regained.

Also, you can play good bad guys, or bad bad guys. There are no PC good guys - at least, not yet. You're playing an angel who rebelled against God's dicta; defied him and joined the forces of the Morningstar (as did a full third of the Heavenly Host). You were cast into the Abyss with all the others, and there spent millenia being slowly eroded from a fallen angel into a creature of spite and malignance and corruption.

Only after inhabiting a mortal body do some demons reclaim the memory of what they once were - and most never reach that epiphany anyway. The PCs are those few who do - those demons who, upon possessing a body, find that the remnants of the human soul left behind have tugged at some heartstring - compassion, pity, love, empathy, whatever. It reminds the demon of what it once was - an angel who took a stand for their principles, who lost the battle but was still an angel - still doing what they thought was good and right. (Remember, history is written by the winners. The angels' fall from grace may not be quite as hubris-inspired as it's painted.)

But no matter how warm and fuzzy your host previously was, you're still a demon; you still have the stains of the Abyss on your soul. Those stains can be minimized and eroded, but not erased - or, at least, not yet. Redemption and forgiveness are common goals for some of the fallen.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:05 am

The thing that keeps me from diving headfirst into Demon: The Fallen is that you can't play the good good guys, or the bad good guys. It's just the bad bad guys, or the good bad guys. And this is despite the fact that I totally dig on this sort of thing. <major generalisation>It's that WOD thing again, where a game isn't complete without "the evil," to the point where it forgets "the good."</major generalisation> Hopefully, they'll put something like that in soon.

Jestyr wrote:Demon is In Nomine with meaty goodness. In Nomine bent so far over backwards to be un-religiously offensive that - despite the fact that you play demons and angels - there's not much feeling of spirituality about the game.

Isn't that all up to the players and GM?

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:55 am

Hmm... I could name at least several dozen factions in the World of Darkness that could be termed the "good guys".

That's for another thread, though. One faction in Demon actually seeks to reconcile with God and become Angels again, so there's nothing stopping you from being a good guy in Demon...

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:14 pm

Cazmonster goes to McDonald's HQ with a .50 caliber handcannon.

AND ONE TO GROW ON!

God, I want this game. I want to use the rules to go through Dogma about fifty times in a row.

Silent Sniper · Post by **Silent Sniper** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:01 pm

Definitely sounds cool. Besides, how can any self-respecting Bulldrekker say no to a game where you can HELLFIRESMITE!™ people?

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:38 pm

DV8 wrote:Isn't that all up to the players and GM?

Well, I was talking about the flavor/atmosphere of the books & settings. Tthe atmosphere of each campaign is of course dependent on the participants.

Trav wrote:One faction in Demon actually seeks to reconcile with God and become Angels again, so there's nothing stopping you from being a good guy in Demon...

Well, a good bad guy. You're still a demon. You still have Torment. You can aim to *become* a good guy, though.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:45 pm

So, who wants to play one of Kwyndig's vixens at this point?

mmmm... HELLFIRESMITE!™

Ryan Murphy · Post by **Ryan Murphy** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:12 am

So, like, how does Demon fit in with the World of Darkness (if at all)?

Just another drop in the bucket towards the extinction of Normal Humans in WW games

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:05 pm

So, like, how does Demon fit in with the World of Darkness (if at all)?

Just another drop in the bucket towards the extinction of Normal Humans in WW games

Normal Humans? We don't need no stinking Humans!

From what little I've seen of this, I'd guess they are just another supernatural.

*MooCow thinks the supernatural union hall must be getting kinda crowded*

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:31 pm

As far as I can tell, it isn't officially part of WoD yet. They'll probably put out a WoD:Demon book eventually though that will allow you to integrate it.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:15 pm

Of course they will, because White Wolf always needs more money.

And speaking of White Wolf, I am irked that their pulp game tied into the Aberrant storyline.

Icepick · Post by **Icepick** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:47 am

Jestyr wrote:Well, a good bad guy. You're still a demon. You still have Torment. You can aim to *become* a good guy, though.

So what exactly are the effects of torment.(Please don't tell me that it's your dark half coming out to take control of your body, it's already been done several times, Vampire with the Beast, Wraith with the Shadow, and I'm not sure, but maybe rage).

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:28 am

Please don't tell me that it's your dark half coming out to take control of your body

Then I guess I can't tell you what Torment is.

Most of the WW games focus on the characters as individuals struggling to overcome the dark side of their nature. Demon, by its very nature - a game about fallen angels, for god's sake - is more suited to this than almost any other game.

That said, Torment is less of an active control over your personality and actions, compared with when the Beast or the Rage take you. Torment is a spiritual taint, a corruption that leaks into your supernatural manifestations. High-Torment demons appear fearsome and dreadful when displaying their angelic nature; low-Torment demons merely appear with the 'faded glory of a fallen angel'. High-Torment demons find that their "evilness" affects the manifestation of their powers, as well - it changes the effects of their Lore evocations, for example. (The Demon equivalent of Disciplines/Gifts/whatever.) Etc, etc.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:09 am

Wicked cool, I could have purple spiky hellfire.

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:39 am

I'm a few stories into Lucifer's Shadow now, and I'm finding it's quite good as well. Excellent writing, and not a shoehorned game term to be found.

Icepick · Post by **Icepick** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:27 am

I was a witness to a game, and it seems to be a new bag of tricks, but in actuality, just a sum of the ideas of the other world of darkenss games...

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:07 am

Demons vs. Hunters = all manner of glowing, pulsing whim whams!

I can't remember the name of the high end Martyr powers, but there's one that's hell on wheels. Me wantee that in a Demon game.

Chuckles · Post by **Chuckles** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:39 pm

I'm with Caz. Not a crotch would be left intact.

*KERBLAMMO*

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:51 pm

Cazmonster dives for cover, desperately armoring his crotch against what he knows is coming.

Duck and Cover! Protect your balls!

Icepick · Post by **Icepick** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:49 am

Lore of flame 2:Ignite.

That's all you need, and then some...

Chuckles · Post by **Chuckles** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:51 am

The fact that Demons have balls gives me great comfort. They are vulnerable. They can be harmed.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:09 am

Kick him in the nards!

He doesn't have nards!

Do it! Do it anyway!

*BOOT*

*AAAROOOOOO!!!!*

Wolfman's got nards!!!

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:12 am

I'm imagining some Get in Crinos form, slighy curled over and its eyes just starting to roll up in the back if its head.

Caz:: *psst* Demons can possess Hunters for new levels of goodness. :evil

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 7:39 am

Or badness, depending on your moral perspective.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:09 pm

Or levels in Torment.

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:17 pm

*sigh* Don't you just hate it when a game that sounds really cool comes out, and you know your RL game situation is never going to give you a chance to play it?

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:14 pm

Cash - hell yeah, demon powers and hunter powers.

[Demon/Hunter Mode On]Okay, I'm going to use Cleave on my whip and then ignite it![Demon/Hunter Mode Off]

[Storyteller Mode On]Aww Shit, there goes my NPC.[Storyteller Mode Off]

Tell you what Lil, I will think about running some Dumpshock Bulldrek Demon at the next Gencon.

Cazmonster prepares to armor the hell up and murder that part of himself that creates campaigns for four hour game sessions.

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:11 pm

I'd be tickled if I was anywhere near certain I'd be able to make GenCon.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:31 pm

It is December, you've got plenty of time...

MissTeja · Post by **MissTeja** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:35 am

Looking around the thread at the guys attempting to protect their groins *reminds herself of how thankful she is that she does not have balls*

Heh.

Caz, Lil - I'm so there, guys. Keep me posted.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:13 am

*grins evilly*

Hellfire to the ovaries...

MissTeja · Post by **MissTeja** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:19 am

Damn you Cash! LOL I was hoping ya'll might just forget about those!
*covers herself with a metal chick sheild and ducks for cover*

Pepito Bastiardo · Post by **Pepito Bastiardo** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:04 am

Lilith wrote:*sigh* Don't you just hate it when a game that sounds really cool comes out, and you know your RL game situation is never going to give you a chance to play it?

That happens ever time I look at a new RPG.

Icepick · Post by **Icepick** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:46 am

Tell me about it, I still have a whole bunch of unused Shadowrun that need to find players to torture...

Toon · Post by **Toon** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 4:17 pm

Lil: I'm all for Demon. Unfortunately, the one other person around here who may easily have been interested has pretty much alienated the entire group. So we need to dig up more interested parties.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 1:18 am

Cazmonster wrote:Kick him in the nards!

Nards? Must be an American thing. Always heard them refered to as 'nads, as in short for gonads. Feh.